Adventures in Azeroth

It’s a Druid’s World (of Warcraft)

Karaflop!

Since I wouldn’t want to kill off regular commentor Slipslappy, here’s a brief overview of my initial foray into Karazhan last night.

Gee – is the post title giving it away?

I guess in retrospect my expectations were probably too high.  As I’ve mentioned, I am not in an elite guild.  Adding to this was we are now running two Kara groups, and I was in “Group 2” – read that “N00b Group”.  Our leaders were familiar with the raid, but we had a lot of first timers in the group along with myself.  That also probably means we were on the low end of the gear scale too.

Even so…

I felt we had a tough time.  Ventured in around 9:00 and stopped at Midnight.  What did we get done in 3 hours?  Downed Attumen and wiped once on Maiden.  That’s it.

I struggle a lot with my guild.  I love the fact that they are easy-going, let everyone play as much or little as they want, are for the most part mature grownups and have a lot of fun.  What drives me crazy is how this translates into a lot of wasted time.  Guild rules call for raids to start at 8:45 with invites tossed out at 8:15.  So why the heck did we not even get started until 9:00?  When we’re clearing trash mobs, we almost always have a minute or two go by in between pulls.  Okay, people have to drink, etc. but why are we all standing around?  Mark the next part and pull.   I’ve got into the habit of not hitting Enrage until the mob is headed towards us.  Literally, I’ll hit Enrage when the raid leader says “Ready?”, and most of my rage will be gone by the time he pulls.  Frustrating.

So, anyway we wiped on Midnight/Attumen about 3 times before downing him.  With the fast respawns (and the screwing around), we had to clear back to them every time.  Lots of trash, no good drops, big repair bills.  Once we finally got them down – no good drops for Amanna.  The plate wrists and cloth gloves.  But at least they were down.  We cleared the next room and I got to talk to the NPC to complete the Assessing the Situation quest.

We headed back and went up the stairs toward the Maiden.  Took a while to get there, and wiped on the first try.  Since it was around midnight at this point, the raid leader called it a night.

Hey – don’t get me wrong.  I know we all have to learn and I’d be the first to admit I made a ton of mistakes last night.  It just seems like we bring an instance mentality to raids.  I guess you have to take the good with the bad.

So, have I kept you in suspense long enough Slip?

Not much for Amanna – I just got one greenie via greed.  However, I did make Friendly with The Violet Eye, so once we broke up, I headed back outside and picked up my initial Violet Badge.  That was my main objective anyway.  Getting a ring that gives me 294 armor (1617 in Bear), +27 Stamina and +13 defense isn’t a bad night’s work. 

My one big observation of the night was how much harder to build and hold aggro it seems in Kara compared to other instances.  I’ve had no problem in the past holding aggro on instance bosses, in some cases even stealing it from Pallies or Warriors while in Bear.  Last night though, I really had to work to keep mobs under control and track them down from time to time.  Now – I don’t think our group was very disciplined in watching their threat meters, but any observations or comments from you Kara veterans out there would be welcomed.  Are the mobs just that much harder to control in there, do I have a gear issue, or is this just normal? 

There’s always next time.

Forms Bar

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July 19, 2007 - Posted by | Raiding, World of Warcraft

13 Comments »

  1. With regard to your threat, you may find that in order to hold it, you’ll be looking at some of the so-called Rogue gear. A lot of it will downgrade your obvious defensive stats but up your offensive ones like Hit Rating and AP. You’ll trade AC, Stam, and some Def for AGI in the process, though, but it shouldn’t hurt too badly.

    I did just Armory you and your gear looks really close to what mine was last week and it shouldn’t bother you…I think your assessment of undisciplined DPS is probably accurate. I tanked in there just fine wearing about what you are now.

    I think you’ll actually find Heroics harder to tank than Kara. I do, anyway.

    Comment by Currant | July 19, 2007 | Reply

  2. I agree with currant. I main tank’d kara as a druid. Your dps probably isn’t discplined enough to let you build agro. Another thing is that Kara is full of mobs in the early stages that are bleed immune. So Lacerate is less effective but still vital to be used.

    Bruennor

    Comment by Bruennor | July 19, 2007 | Reply

  3. You are correct Bruennor, I wasn’t putting Lacerate on the skeletal horses or undead at all once I saw it didn’t work. Are you saying that just applying it is still good for building aggro?

    Comment by Amanna | July 19, 2007 | Reply

  4. why are you trying to steal aggro from pallys and warriors again? that’s why we don’t like running with you as off-tanks, you need constant moderation and that makes our jobs harder. keep that in mind next time you’re MTing something and an offtank does it to you

    Comment by poot | July 19, 2007 | Reply

  5. Lacerate does a initial threat amount. I don’t know the exact numbers so it is worthwhile to still use it. It just won’t be as effective. For generating threat and holding agro, even on a bleed immune mob still use Lacerate ->Mangle -> Maul.

    Oh and for Poot. If you can’t post constructively why post at all. Oh and and I like to tank and most tanks don’t mind if I tank the mob.

    Bruennor

    Comment by Bruennor | July 19, 2007 | Reply

  6. Amanna, yeah, Lacerate still has an upfront aggro value even for mobs that don’t bleed.

    Comment by Currant | July 19, 2007 | Reply

  7. One thing you might not have known about the skeletal horses is that they charge the furthest “unfriendly” target every once in a while and do an aoe fear, but they will always return to you. It’s not an aggro thing. For Attumen you should have a warrior on Attumen to disarm him and have you on Midnight.
    I’ve tanked every boss in Karazhan with absolutely no problem, it just takes time to figure out the specifics. Moroes is my least favorite boss to tank because of his ridiculous crushing blows and constant gouge/blind.

    In regards to Lacerate, the threat generated is by actually hitting him with lacerate, not by the dot bleed effect. It is our “sunder” and is your fastest way to generate threat.

    Oh, and ignore Poot, he’s a retard. Delete his post if you can, he’s obviously a 12 year old with a sad derailment attempt.

    Also, just to inform you for future reference, There are five primary bosses and five “optional” bosses in Karazhan. Optional are: Attumen, Maiden, Illhoof, Netherspite & Nightbane.

    The order for mandatory bosses goes like this:

    Moroes->Opera->Curator->Aran->Prince

    We usually do the mandatory bosses quickly and then come back later in the week to down the optional bosses.

    Sorry about your bad luck on drops. Attumen drops the greatest gloves ever lol. You’ll get them next time.

    Comment by Slipslappy | July 19, 2007 | Reply

  8. Thanks Slip – the comment on the horses makes sense. That’s exactly what happened, they would run off and a bunch of people would get feared. I would normally charge after them – next time I’ll just stay where I am.

    We did Midnight/Attument like you said. I was on Midnight and we had a warrior on Attumen. Couldn’t see if he was disarming though. I think it was his first time also. Our raid leader had obviously been in before, but these are the kind of fine points my guild doesn’t always focus on, as I suggested in my post.

    I am somewhat familiar with the layout and bosses having read the wowwiki overviews a few times.

    As to “poot” – I’ll leave the post alone. Ignorance is it’s own punishment…

    😉

    Comment by Amanna | July 20, 2007 | Reply

  9. Got here from BRK, who is da man. I feel your pain in Kara. Our guild alliance (we’re a buncha REALLY small guilds who raid and group together to improve our regular player pool) is going through the same thing. I know you’re busy tanking, but I find occasionally hollering out a ‘watch your threat , please’ as you see that damned doomkin (um, that’d be me) rocketing up the threat chart can help if you say it sweetly. As for speeding up time between pulls and enforcing start times, if you figure out a solution, PLEASE post it! Good luck! Remember, Bare Durids R 4 Tanx.

    Comment by Cailleach | July 20, 2007 | Reply

  10. Thanks for the comments everyone.

    Most of the times I “thought” I was losing aggro, it was those skeletal horses. So now that I know they are charging, I feel better.

    A clarification – I wasn’t saying I was upset others were stealing my aggro, I was wondering if I wasn’t able to keep it. Minor difference, but still a difference. I was watching theat meters, and the only one challenging me and the other MT in threat was our warlock, which makes sense.

    So in the end – I feel a little better given all the comments. Got my signet equipped and we’ll see how it goes next time.

    Thanks everyone.

    Comment by Amanna | July 21, 2007 | Reply

  11. Good luck in your future Kara runs Amanna 🙂
    I’m 200 or so rep away from exalted with VE… I’m dying to get my final ring.
    Should you prove yourself to your “casual” guild, I don’t see any reason why you wouldn’t be the MT of group 1 soon. We have two druids in our guild now that have tanked all of the bosses in Karazhan and healers much prefer us over pallys and some warriors because of our enormous health pool and large armor rating. Pallys can grab and build aggro better than any other class that I’ve seen, but they seem to take much more damage than us. The positive thing about pallys building so much aggro is that it allows the dps classes to go all out without having to worry about stealing aggro. By doing this the mobs go down much faster, but it is harder on the healers. With warriors, they can parry and block and have much less of a worry about crushing blows.
    We have a pally tank on our server that pulls Moroes and all 4 of his minions and holds them with Consecrate the entire time. The dps classes just burn one down at a time and it’s pretty amazing to hear about the encounter being done this way.
    Just remember that Karazhan is a pain in the ass, but once you get it figured out, it is a very fun instance, no matter how many times you run it. You will have your favorite fights (Netherspite & Shade for me) and your least favorites (Moroes), but with a solid group all encounters become trivial.
    I love reading your posts and it is fun to read about other views and opinions. Keep up the good work. 🙂

    Comment by Slipslappy | July 21, 2007 | Reply

  12. I was reading concerning the threat. What everyone’s said is true, as far as I can tell. I have one character I work on, which is a human mage, so when it comes to suggestions for holding aggro, I can’t tell ya (I’m basically a tank’s enemy when it comes to aggro and threat).

    As for moving the guild on faster… Our guild is pretty solid with a commanding leader. We raid for about 5 hours a day, usually only two days a week. So when we get in there, our job is to move quickly.
    The best way to build up the confidence for this (besides gear) is to make sure the buffs are big. Food buffs, flasks and potions, and any other buff you can put on. the more, the stronger everyone is.
    When you enter the stables to go after the Huntsman, remember that the ghosts are easily tanked, and pulling aggro from the tank is nearly impossible, so make sure your dps’ers burn them down first and quickly. As for the horses, have shackles put up to hold them in place, it’ll help focus fire a lot more, and save on losing a player to be an off-tank. The moment the kill target looks to be gone (less than 10% health), shift to the next one and begin tanking. that way when everyone burns down the original kill target, the next on the list has your undivided attention and the dps’ers can pelt away on it right away.

    Being the tank, and being a druid, you should be the one marking. You, or a rogue who can sneak in and mark without gaining aggro. It’s one of the biggest things to do, so everyone understands the essencials. And when they focus fire, they burn the mobs down faster, leaving everyone with more mana.

    Wait until before the curator when you get towards the back door. There are two types of spirits: blue and green. Blue is a dps battle, everything’s great with them. It’s a tank and spank. The green, however, are immune to taunt. The moment you lose aggro, the winner of the aggro gets a one-way ticket to the outside as he runs back to recover his body (I know, I won it once). That will be when leadership comes into play.

    Good luck in there. It’s a rough place, and the fights only get more complicated as you climbt he tower.

    Comment by Mordorlay | August 2, 2007 | Reply

  13. ok for one im new too this whole raiding thing and kinda tanking too im a mt i got a 70 mage 745 spell damage 70 shaman resto 1100 healing mage was a main toon so i know what its like to see a tank get hit and how hard it is to heal one.but switched to my druid who was just a pvp toon cause the guild need a tank i turn to piece of high warlords gear in to tanking cause they needed me aspa i mean i collected gear along the way so i had some tank gear well the stat are this in bear on buffed 12142hp armor 19913 defense 428 dodge 18.08 resilience 105 ap 1497 crit 19.82 hit rate 44 had to get hit cause i would hit moroes like 5 times and only touch him once killed the aggro but with the 44 hit im getting aggro pretty nice im just wondering if i should change any stats for others ps kara is the first time i really raided well thanks hope to hear ur info on my druid soon

    Comment by trainwreck | August 12, 2007 | Reply


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